But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. 2024 Mustang Prices Are Out, Dark Horse Is . In 1987, he assumed the role of editor for Hot Rod magazine before returning to his first love of writing technical stories. The factory 4L80Eand the stronger 4L85is essentially a traditional TH-400 three-speed automatic equipped with a fourth, overdrive gear. The transmission lacks a direct-drive, but features two overdrive gears. By the time a converter rebuilder opens up a JMBX, the damage is done, and it can be hard to see what happened first. During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). It's meant to be used with rear-wheel drive and it requires 8.4 quarts of fluid. There are five main inputs the vehicle uses for transmission shift strategy, they are: The Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle must be performed after any of the following procedures are performed: Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows: After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? With 10 forward gears to choose from, the 10L80 transmission is able to reduce the fuel consumption of a high horsepower engine. The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. check the starter bendix and see if its loose and bouncing off the flywheel. You can scribe numbers on them from 1-6 if you choose for a quick reminder of their location. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. By Wayne Colonna. The Ford version is built at their Livonia transmission plant (Ford spent a reported $1.4 billion on retooling to build this transmission), and the GM version is built only a few miles away at their transmission factory in Romulus Michigan (GM spent a comparatively cheap $323 million retooling this factory). Electronic challenges exist when mixing and matching the 6L80 as they must be matched to their particular engine. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. This is the abridged version of my problem. As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". Exceptional torque rating. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? The new 2019 Camaro gets the a10 but, Its not the a10 (10L90) from the ZL1. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. One common 6l80 issue due to design flaws include premature clutch failure. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. (incl. The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. * WILL ALLOW USE . If we change to the latest GM 10-speed automatic it has a 4.70:1 First gear and is factory matched with a 2.85:1 rear gear. Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. Put simply, its the converter. Its been on the road for a few years, and were starting to see some common failures for this unit. Seems like the 6 speed auto would be better for the torque curve. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. Related Articles Are you ready to rock in 2023? TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. Specifications The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. Ford considers this to be a normal condition! Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. Theres also a unique internal thermal bypass that allows the transmission to warm up faster, reducing fuel consumption on cold starts. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, 32-bit computer integrated into the valve body of the 6L80 / 6L90 and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. Its a little tough to see, but the thickness of the pistons is also different. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. Brian at Tommy Boys Performance, however, has the opportunity to work with a local dealership assisting them when their workload gets heavy. For a type B code, the fault must be present after two consecutive ignition cycles, otherwise, the MIL will not illuminate (however, a pending code will store). It features dynamic veins and a rotating wheel driven by a steel gear with it's own filter. By utilizing more gearing, the 6L80 keeps the car in its power band longer, improving the MPG of the vehicle between 4-7% (over the previous generation fours speed transmissions) depending on the configuration of the vehicle that its in. Many who work in the dealerships have become privy to the immediate failures that occur in this unit. Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. You are browsing camaro6. But the replacement of this assembly requires new bolts. I & II Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. Required fields are marked *. Essentially what TCI did was to engage the overdrive at the back of the trans to split the gear spread between the original First and Second gear ratios and again between Second and Third. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). Then it can upshift to one of its three overdrive gears for maximum fuel economy. 10R80 transmission swap? None of the above categories describe me. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A Stuck On. $ 439.00 Select options. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), (see also capacity of fluid in the converter. Find Dealer. What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. Special engine computer programming strategies may be required. This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . It appears that GM has put a very minor taper into the cover and possibly the piston as well. The 6L80 was used in trucks, particularly in the GMT 900 platform. Even though it has two more gears, creative packaging allows the 10L80 transmission to be no bigger or heavier than an 8L90 or 6L90. I have a 2wd 2000 regular cab stepside bed Silverado that used to make closer to 600-650 wheel horsepower with the D1-SC Procharger and 4L80E. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. By reducing the rpm drop between gears, the engine remains within its power band. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. 4. With REVolution, your transmission becomes an integral, critical part of your combination, allowing you to maximize its performance using either the Quick 6, Quick 4, or Quick 2 controller. The customer approves a teardown. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . At part pedal, when acceleration is brisk, single-step upshifts would result in very frequent shift events (a very short time in gear). Indirectly affects shift control. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. As you build the best transmission that you can for your customer, you should consider including an updated torque converter in the repair estimate. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. The torque converter is a fluid turbine drive and - like those on its predecessor transmissions, the TH350C, 700R4, 4L60, and 4L80E - features a lock-up pressure plate for direct mechanically coupled driving from the engine crank. $ 158.00 Select options. Did the converter clutch material just wear out, thus allowing the clutch and cover to go metal-on-metal? This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. Thats pretty much all thats to it. Need to convert 10L80 rom 4wd to 2wd. Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. and the maximum output torque is 664 ft. lbs. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E The same shift strategy that is used for the upshift may be applied during a downshift. The TMBX and the JMBX have similar covers and use the same woven carbon friction material, yet the JMBX fails catastrophically at a very high rate and the TMBX cover rarely fails. The 6L80 transmission pan is similar in shape but the 6L80 is shorter at 17 1/2 inches. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. Allows easy highway cruising, seamless downshifts, Transbrake and 2nd gear (2.34) leave options through multiple templates tuned independently of the engine management system! There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. Gears Magazine
With this in mind, there are (3) major groups of failure management strategies that are used when certain diagnostic trouble codes are present. The location of the warmer and the routing of the hoses can vary widely. Online Buyer's Guide
So my suggestion is to not subject the lockup to that amount of abuse. Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. For a type A code, the MIL will illuminate after one drive cycle with the malfunction present. The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. With a dry weight of approximately 230 lbs, its also very light considering the complexity. Autostart / Autostop function disabled (if equipped), Transmission Adaptive Pressure Control and adaptive shift values Frozen, High line pressure (harsh shifts and engagements). From the workshop on ongoing projects and more, and where the new images are added afterwards. The 6L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases. But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. Shop Finder
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All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. As the installer was pumping fluid into the transmission from the right side of the vehicle, he was having a difficult time getting it full. The complaint A Ford vehicle equipped with the FNR5 transmission has a complaint of a severe slipping condition in reverse. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). Powertrain Expo
Sticking valves and sticking CIDAS solenoids are becoming more common concerns with these units. CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. GM was still using their trustworthy 4L80E transmissions for heavier duty use, which was essentially a 1960's technologyTH400with added 1990's overdrive and electronic controls. Wait 2 seconds. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. vehicle weights. Fluid Type Mercon ULV ATF The 6L80 is a modular transmission, featuring removable bellhousings and tailhousings for interchangeability with the GM 90 Degree engines and other potential engines in the future. 2nazty New Member. The 6L80Es gear rations are as follows: There are two super easy ways to tell whether or not the transmission is a 6L80E. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. They are listed as Type A, Type B, and Type C diagnostic trouble codes. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. Shift the transmission to Reverse. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. The Chevrolet Performance 6L80E trans comes with a set of wiring harness adapters and a flash drive that is used to configure the transmission to be used behind a GM LS engine in a rear wheel drive application. Which one you use is going to depend on whether or not the transmission is in or out of the vehicle. It is a 5 position shifter, Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and Sport Mode. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. if (yr!=2012)
I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. Can I assume my car has the General Motors GL80 with the 4.02 first gear? A horsepower revolution spawned by GM's increasingly powerful Gen. III+ V8 engines and their aggressive platforms such as the Cadillac STSV, XLRV, various trucks and SUV's and the venerable Corvette. Now, the high-speed CAN network allows a high rate of data sharing between the units to achieve a collaboration between both engine and transmission functions. I am currently planning on a high compression LS2 and a progressive nitrous kit but before another 4L80E goes in there is a 6,8, or 10 speed not an option? See how the ratios have swapped places? Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. or Best Offer . GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. I also have a 2wd 2006 Trailblazer SS with a forged 416ci stroked LS3 which makes around 600 hp or so with a Yank SS3600 stall converter. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! Like most GM automatic transmissions, the easiest way to tell them apart is by using the pan gasket. Nov 26 . DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. Renew Subscription
And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. vehicle weights. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. Shift the transmission to Neutral. The idler gear itself has two threaded holes opposite each other for the use of a puller (see figure 1, above). I am interested in enhancing my vehicles performance. This transmission is out of a Tur. While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules.